"…Spiritual in the sense that there’s definitely something going on and I definitely have no clue what it is!  But as long as I try to lead my life the best way I can, and try to be a good person… I mean everybody knows when you’re being a good person and when you’re not.  I think as long as you’re conscious of always trying to do the right thing by people, it comes back to you in the end.  And when you don’t, it comes back to you in the end!  So I don’t understand how it all works but there’s definitely something going on!"

With the band's upcoming release The Dead and Dreaming scheduled to drop on 10/5/04 via their own label, Psychodrama Records, things are looking bigger and better for one of Rock/Metal's mainstay acts. Judging from their performance tonight, it's not hard to see why this band has been around for as long as they have, since 1995 to be exact, and why they have such a loyal, devoted fan base!

Karma:  So how has tour been going for you so far?

Cliff: It’s been awesome, it’s our 3rd day.  It’s been a lot of fun; we did Duluth, Madison, Wisconsin and Chicago.  All markets/places we haven’t been, places we haven’t been since we were on the road in 2001 off the last record.  So it’s been great because we come out 3 years later and everything’s so ‘‘yesterday’’ in music these days.  [Smiles] And then to have a kid come up to you, [Eyes widen with exuberance] ‘I saw you were playing in town and I haven’t seen you since 2001, you had on green shorts and a tan shirt!  OH MY GOD, OH MY GOD!’ [Now you must understand, this was all said in one breath]  Which is like, WOW!!  People remember which is humbling.  It’s why we do it!

Karma: That’s great!!  How awesome is that?!?

Cliff: Yeah! [Laughing]

Karma: You guys have been around since ’93, what can you say about your mainstay at being recognizable yet still remain an underground favorite?  Do you want to stay there?

Cliff: Not necessarily, I don’t think we have a game plan in mind as far as the level of success we are looking to achieve.  I just think as long as we’ve done as much as we can to get our music out there then we’ll fell like we’ve accomplished our goal.  Whether it be 5 people that enjoy it or a million people will enjoy it as long as we fell like we’ve exhausted all of the opportunities we have.  But, we’ve been around a while and we’ve never necessarily been a band who’s success has been predicated on radio or mainstream video play or things of that ilk.  I think that inherently we stay underground but it’s not intentional in the sense of like, [puffs chest up, takes on an austere appearance and starts to speak gruffly] ‘If your videos aren’t played on MTV then you’re not cred!’  It’s more like, it’s just the way the cards have been dealt and that’s okay!  I don’t know, we come here and play, and there's like 200 kids, and they're having a good time. [Shakes head veraciously whilst making maddening sounds] I just have such a good time watching that, I just couldn’t imagine the [smiling] success level of 20,000 people singing back the song with lighters…[laughing] I don’t know!!

Karma: [Laughing]

Cliff: But then again, I can’t imagine touring in a bus either.  I still think I’m limited in the way that I see things.

Karma: Do you feel you have the keys to control your own fate again by you being around more than a decade, which is a feat unto itself, especially in this genre, in which is pretty awesome by the way!

Cliff: [Smiles] Thanks!  It’s just one of those things where education is the most valuable thing you can have in any aspect of life.  And I think it rings true in the music industry in the sense that…I mean let’s be realistic; you know this is a business and an industry that thrives on sales.  To some extent, you have to understand that in the limits and what that means.  I think that always understanding who you are, as a musician, also helps your career level as well as understanding the business.  Ultimately you have to enjoy playing music whether it’s here or at Madison Square Garden or whether it’s in mom's basement…like you just have to enjoy having a guitar in your hands and playing it. So for us, as long as you have that enjoyment and not worrying about if we’re going to write the right song by the right quarter so the record label can make the right amount of money so that we can get the right push so that…who’s got time to even think about that?  And be creative all at the same time?  [Smiles]  For us, I think we learned a lot over time we’ve been a band.

Karma: Suffering through the personnel changes & other adversities, has it made your songwriting stronger/tighter?

Cliff: I think it’s made it a little different.  I think it’s made our resolve to want to be musicians stronger and tighter like when we left Road Runner, it was a mass exodus out of the camp.  Road Runner split, our manager split, our guitar player split…a lot of people just kinda went away.  And you could see who still believed in the band and who didn’t necessarily believe in the band.  I think just with in the last 2 years of just dealing with some personnel changes but also acquiring guys who are a million times better than the guys that we had!  No disrespect to them necessarily but it just more of a compliment to the guys that we gained.  [Smiles]  It has made things more resolute in the sense that the purpose is stronger now and you’re not caught up in ‘well somebody wants this to be like that’ and then now we’d have to figure that out and then the internal drama that comes with that.  Now it’s like, hey we’re four guys again making music and like what we’re playing, what we’re doing and an inherent happiness I think that comes along that! [Smiles and laughs]

Karma: Well it also must be great that you are able to gel and to have everyone’s style be complimentary regardless if your styles are different.

Cliff: Yeah that’s the thing you just get into a room and you just start playing with people.  I mean you know immediately when you’re a musician whether you’re locked in or whether you’re totally on a different page.  I don’t know but maybe we’ve just been fortunate in that even though it’s been a long time since we’ve been in between records; the lineup that we have now is exactly where it needs to be.  [Smiles and laughs] And you know if it takes 2-3 years then it just takes 2-3 years. [We both laugh] But we’re just happy that the end result is this rather than mis-stepping or half-stepping and being like, ‘Ahh, this guy didn’t work out or that guy didn’t work out, and this guy didn’t work out…’ and just you know like just spinning our wheels at this point. 

Karma: You guys have been on Music Choice, MTV, Fuse, Radio, etc.  What has been your best method for reaching your fans?

Cliff: I think in this music industry, the best way to really bond and create lifelong fans the way fans were 10-15 years ago is to take the time to actually go out there, sit and talk to them and you know make friends with ‘em and shake their hand and say thank you.

Karma: Which is a dying practice…

Cliff: Exactly!  I mean they’re a lot bands and a lot of people that don’t understand the value of that!  I don’t know, [stops and smiles] it’s only reason WE do it!  So it’s kinda very self defeating to not want to go out and do that.  For us, we just want to get with the fans and try to find new and interesting ways to present the band to the fans.  Because look, there are a million CD samplers out there in the world and there’s a million stickers; I think you need to think outside the box especially today with regards to how you how you market your music and how you take your message to kids.  For us we’ve always been big on lifestyle things like tattoo shops; extremes - snowboarding, snowmobiling; surfing…DVD’s , video games to try to tie our music in with people who enjoy the same kind of aggressive wild things.  And just think outside the box a little bit with presentation and delivery to the people.

Karma:  What are your views on downloading?

Cliff: I think downloading is certainly the wave of the future.  And I think that anyone who thinks they could stop it or curtail it or tailor it to how they want it to be is just silly.  Conversely, I do think that people that create things and own things should have a say in where they go.  And I think the biggest thing about the internet is education.  There’s a whole generation of kids that will never understand the concept of going to a record store on Monday night and waiting for a record to come out and having the vinyl and taking it out and looking at…you know what I mean?  [Laughing]

Karma: Yes, I do!

Cliff: It’s just a new generation of kids who look at things like, ‘everything I want in my life is in front of this computer screen and why would I possibly pay for music?’  You know then you couple that with the fact that the entertainment dollar is so stretched these days between home DVD’s and video games.  I mean everything you can buy with that dollar that music is almost like almost secondary because everything you buy has music in it.  So I just think there’s a lot of a factor; I think downloading is a great thing because #1 it brings back the single mentality in the sense you only have to spend a dollar to get one song.  From what I understand, [laughing] I’m not I-pod savvy, I haven’t made the jump yet, so I really don’t know too much about it per say but every body that I know who has one or some sort of digital music player has said that it’s more than just the new DVD player or the new CD player I should say.  It’s like revolutionizing and reinventing their music listening experience because they can have a thousand songs on this thing.  It’s not like a thousand CD collection, it’s like a thousand songs that someone can listen to inside their cell phone.  So then with that excitement will come more excitement and everything just kind of perpetuates itself.  And I think that over time and with the proper amount of education and discipline hopefully it will be the new medium for music.

Karma:  Out of idle curiosity why did you change the band’s name from Hinge?

Cliff: It was really lawsuit based; we had been named the band Hinge for years and years…prior to signing with Roadrunner that we had been together but when we signed with Roadrunner…  [Smiles]  When you sign a record deal, there’s a little clause in that record deal that says we’re allowed to sign with you, we’re Hinge and we’re signing a record deal with you and you can be Hinge.  And you’ve sussed that out and handled that on your own and there is no infringing party that can say no.  And you sign that as you know the band!  [Smiling]  And we didn’t have that when we signed, we thought we did but we didn’t.  And as it turns out it somebody else owned the name and wasn’t very receptive to sharing with a band.  It wasn’t even a band that owned the name it was a recording studio, actually in Chicago! [Chuckles]

Karma: How ironic! [Laughs]

Cliff: Oddly enough!

Karma: [Laughs]

Cliff: Oddly enough now I remember that! 

Karma: How it all comes flooding back to you now!

Cliff: Exactly!!  [Laughs]  They just didn’t want to share it and we really didn’t understand why he didn’t want to share it but from what we understood there were other bands out there that had been named Hinge prior to us that had never been able to get ownership and he just wasn’t cool with it so we had to change it.  Initially he said it was cool for us to name it Hinge AD, we’d just figure we’d throw a suffix after it…  It is a suffix, right? 

Karma: Well…I’m not sure…it’s a suffix! [Well how stupid am I?  It’s a goddamn abbreviation; but of course I could not remember this during the interview, right?]

Cliff: Well I was thinking it can’t be a prefix…because that would come before the word

Karma: No, it definitely not a prefix because that’s for telephone exchanges… [We both laugh]

Cliff: So we couldn’t do that so we just changed the name.  3 names later, we picked Dry Kill.  People have been receptive to it and like it, so that’s a good thing because if we had 3 names and they didn’t like it they’d be like, ‘Get over it!  Pick a goddamn name already’ [laughing]

Karma: [Boisterous laughter]

Cliff: But we’re not necessarily inherently creative…I mean you should have heard some of the names we came up with before! 

Karma: [Dying of laughter]

Cliff: [Laughing] It was like awful!  We were like we not actually have a name by default if we can’t think of one!  [Laughing, barely able to complete his sentence]

Karma: That’s a great story!

Cliff: So, yeah, we dealt with that one, wiped our brows and haven’t looked back since. 

Karma:  Well that’s good!

Cliff: Yeah!  [We both laugh loudly]

Karma: I wanted to say that I really love “Hindsight” it’s one of those songs where the lyrics make you think.  Which is what I love about your music period is that it is thought provoking which is not as common in this genre right now!

Cliff: Well, thank you!

Karma: You’re welcome!  Please describe a Dry Kill Logic show to someone who has never seen you live.  What can a fan expect to see?

Cliff: I think that it’s an aggressive show in the sense that there’s no fooling around.  You know, when we come out…there’s a reason we write the kind of music that we play and when we play live it’s really like the manifestation of all the emotion that goes into writing these songs.  Grant it the mindset for particular songs come at different times but when we play live it like the energy!  [Smiles] It’s a real force behind our live show.  You listen to a CD and the CD is a perfect replica of the songs as they are but live there’s just… [Smiles] I like to call it Eye of the Tiger.  [We both laugh]  When you come to see the show live you’ll see the Eye of the Tiger, you know what I mean?!  And you don’t get that as much on the CD as much as you do live.  For us it’s the perfect exorcism!! 

Karma: You have a special kindrence with your fans as well.  It’s almost clinical listening to your CD…not to take anything away from your works, but in when you compare it to you live show…you just go, WOW!!  Your live shows are like…WOW!  It leaves you speechless [as I obviously was there]

Cliff: [Smiles] Thank you!  That’s awesome!!  I’m glad, it’s humbling to have people say that because man at the end of the day, we’re just 4 guys writing music.  Just to be able to come to Chicago and to have people be like, ‘Hey, we like your music’, Hey we like YOU for liking our music! [Laughs]

Karma: [Laughter]

Cliff: We’ve just been very fortunate that we’ve bee able to do that!  So we try not to ever take advantage of that or lose sight of the fact that all things like this are very easily taken away and you never take then for granted.  Never ever ever!!

Karma: So true!  What would you say sets Dry Kill Logic out amongst the rest of the Rock/Metal pack?

Cliff: I think that with us there’s no pomp in circumstance, we’re not metal for metal’s sake: wear all the right t-shirts, have all the right haircuts, and the right piercings.  Like I said, we’re just 4 guys who really enjoy making music and really enjoy playing it for people.  And go out of our way to establish relationships with kids that will last forever.  I mean, well go upstairs and hang out for 2 or 3 hours and if a kid’s like, ‘Hey man I want a soda and I don’t have any money’, we’ll go buy him a soda!  It’s like people are people; we just come out here and play music and have a good time.  For us we always want to make it very fan oriented because that what matters!  It’s not us!!  They have a million bands they can choose from so hopefully they’ll stop and enjoy us for a little while.

Karma: Who are some of your musical influences?

Cliff: You know it’s funny, as I get older…and I am older!  [Laughs] And I find myself listening to…

Karma: Oh please!  How old is old?

Cliff: 31

Karma: [Laughs] Oh yeah, you’re ancient!! 

Cliff: [Laughs heartily] Man I’m telling you, I’ve got my Medicaid card coming next week.  I get 10% off my coffee at McDonald’s when I went over there. [Laughing continues] Over the years you know like when I was in high school, it was all about Metallica.  But as I’ve gotten older, as a musician, you find yourself listening to a lot of stuff because you enjoy music and performances.  There’s no way you could possibly ever be a real musician and limit yourself to one style of music.  I think in my CD player right now is the new Ray Charles disc, Genius Loves Company, Stevie Ray Vaughn, it’s the new live disc, 2 disc live it just came out…  Live at Mon… no not Monterrey!  Live at somewhere else I can’t remember what it’s called but I listen to that, Billy Joel, the Millennium Concert Series.  I mean stuff like that!  Jay, [Jason Bozzi] my guitar player loves Jeff Buckley, Phil [Arcuri]; my drummer listens to the Beatles nonstop.  I mean, it’s just really diverse.  But conversely, the new Killswitch Engage record is amazing.  I really like 36 Crazyfists, I like that band Thrice.  You try to listen to everything and just appreciate all music for what it is.  We were listening to the Blues Brothers Soundtrack today

Karma: Oh that’s awesome!  [Laughter]

Cliff: [Smiles] Yeah!  Every time we come through Chicago, we’ve got to play the Blues Brothers CD and the Soundtrack.  We were sitting there and laughing, we were like, ‘This is great!  We are back in Chicago’! [Laughs]

Karma: It’s a great tie in! [Laughs]

Cliff: I know, it really is!

Karma: Where do you see yourselves, the band, in the next 5-7 years?

Cliff: [Begins to chuckle] Hopefully not collecting unemployment checks!  [We both laugh]  You know what I mean, for us we just want to have careers as musicians.  No body can stay at the party forever, obviously!  But for us we just want to make sure we get out there and play music and hopefully take it as far as we can.  I would hopefully anticipate myself 5-7 years from now still playing music and hopefully being on my own headlining tour. 

Karma: What’s has been your finest performance moment to date?

Cliff: Like the one single time that I felt most fulfilled or just over all?

Karma: Let’s go with one single time!

Cliff: [Pause] I think the first time I really started to feel like I was on the right path with what I wanted to do full time and that kind of fulfillment was right after we signed our first deal with Roadrunner.  And not for any particular reason per say but I just felt like a milestone was hit there.  As far as individual that have always been great like getting the opportunity to play with Slayer was a real high point for us because we’re just big fans.  Phil and I were standing on the side of the stage going, “Whoa!’  [Smiles] Every tour we’ve done has been a real blessing for us; it’s tough I can’t really say there’s been one thing.  I just think that the whole experience of being able to be a full time musician has been the most fulfilling thing for us…for me any way!  For better or for worst I suppose!  [Laughing]

Karma: [Smiles] Now that’s a great story!  Okay, here’s a quick Speed Round of Questions.

Cliff: Sure!

Karma: What’s your mantra?

Cliff: I like that!  Anything that I find myself saying a lot, the one thing I try to live by is “Diversity not only builds character, it reveals character!’’  So that really the one thing I try to repeat in my head as much as possible. 

Karma: If you could be a cartoon character, which one would you be?

Cliff: I would most definitely be Homer Simpson!  [Smiles]  Homer’s AWESOME!!  That guy lives the life!  He always makes it out in the end, Homer!  That Homer!! [Laughs]

Karma: [Laughs aloud] Favorite bands/musicians of all time, choice of 5?

Cliff: Alice Cooper, Pantera, this is a really tough question…  I’m sitting here looking through my CD collection going, ‘I could say that one or that one…’ Let’s say Alice Cooper, Pantera, Stevie Ray Vaughn and the Beatles. 

Karma: How would your worst enemy describe you?

Cliff: Humph…  As like a big, loud, barking dog [smiles] that just doesn’t shut up until he gets the f… what he wants!  [We both laugh hysterically]  That’s probably how people best describe me. ‘The dude keeps barking and barking and barking and doesn’t shut the “f” up until you give him what he wants and then he leaves you alone!’ [Laughs smugly]

Karma: What’s a nickname your friends would give to you on the fly?

Cliff: Pfft!  My friends…I can only give you the topic that my friends tease me constantly about, they always call me short!  So it could be anything from, ‘Hey Tiny!’ to ‘Little Inferno’ [Laughs]

Karma: [Hysterically laughing]

Cliff: I mean it could be anything in the world they feel like just coming up with on the fly!  But then that’s usually the topic where the funniest taglines come from.  Hopefully I’m not giving it all away in this interview doing that, ‘Well what is this dude talking about?’

Karma: That’s great!! Spiritual or religious?

Cliff: Spiritual in the sense that there’s definitely something going on and I definitely have no clue what it is!  [Laughs]  But as long as I try to lead my life the best way I can, and try to be a good person… I mean everybody knows when you’re being a good person and when you’re not.  I mean YOU KNOW! 

Karma: Right from wrong!

Cliff: EXACTLY!  I think as long as you’re conscious of always trying to do the right thing by people, it comes back to you in the end.  And when you don’t, it comes back to you in the end!  So I don’t understand how it all works but there’s definitely something going on! 

Karma: What’s your favorite comfort food?

Cliff: Dunkin Donuts coffee!  ‘Large French Vanilla Light and sweet with cream, please!’

Karma: Okay. [Smiles]

Cliff: [Chuckles]

Karma: Favorite sports team(s)?

Cliff: The Chicago Bears! 

Karma: Really?

Cliff: Swear to God!  And I’m not afraid to sit in Chicago and tell you that I hate being a Chicago Bears fan because the Chicago Bears SUCK!

Karma: [Nods head and laughs]

Cliff: They suck every year!  And I live in New York and I can’t see any games but I love the Chicago Bears and I just wish they were good so ‘Go Lovey Smith!’ and I hope that you do it this year man!  Please, please go 500 this year!

Karma: And there you go!  [Smiles]  Favorite TV show?

Cliff: Don’t watch a lot of TV but when I do watch TV I find myself watching a lot of BBC and CNN and stuff like that. I try to keep up on World events and just watch what’s going on.  But I really like Law & Order.  I really like it!

Karma: What was the last book you read?

Cliff: The last book I finished was Philosophy, The History of Dee Dee Ramone, which was very interesting.  I’m reading Hit Men [Hit Men: Power Brokers & Fast Money Inside the Music Business] which is a music industry book about payola and the music industry over the 50’s and the 60’s and the ties through the Mafia.  And the next book I have to read is a Hunter S. Thompson book which is on the agenda; I just need to read Hit Men first!

Karma: Okay!

Cliff: I mean I’ve been waiting for years for me to get my hands on it…so yeah! [Smiles]

Karma: Guilty pleasure song or the one CD that no one would ever believe that you own?

Cliff: I will say the one guilty pleasure song that people could do without me singing is my Mob Hits CD.  Because I am a New York Italian, you see! [Smiles]  So I love Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin and Sammy Davis and all of the Rat Pack.  So Mob Hits, I play it all the time.  YEAH!!  There’s 3 guineas in the band too so that helps!  [We both die laughing]  So it’s like sauce on Sunday, a little Mob Hits, espresso…

Karma: It’s all about the gravy and cooking!  [Laughs]

Cliff: Exactly!!  I’ve been trying to get my mother into making some meatballs for the road.  [As he starts to snicker devilishly]

Karma: Which band would you commission to do a cover of your favorite song?

Cliff: Wow!  If I could hear Motörhead playing “Little Red Corvette” [Laughs]

Karma: Oh my, that would be a gem!

Cliff: That’s who’d I commission!!  Someone would say to me, ‘What song would you like…I’d like to hear “Little Red Corvette”’

Karma: First job?

Cliff: Pfft!  I was a busboy when I was like 13.  I mean I don’t even think I was legal to work but they hired me anyway.  CHILD LABOR!  [Laughs]  I had no attention span! 

Karma: [Laughing]

Cliff: [Laughing] They couldn’t possibly expect me to work; what were they thinking?   was 12 or 13, for Christ’s sake, my whole life’s ahead of me, I’m not thinking about picking up spoons!!  But I worked there; I think I worked there for about 3 days and it taught me nothing, and I got fired...and here I am!

Karma: Well it did teach you something; it taught you that you didn’t want to go in to that line of work!  [We both laugh]

Cliff: Exactly!  I’d never make a very good busboy.  I don’t have the discipline to be a good busboy! [Laughs]

Karma: What was your first car?

Cliff: A 1973 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme with a Rocket 350, red with a white canvas top!  [Whistles]

Karma: Ahh.

Cliff: Grandma’s car.  My grandma was fast!!  [We both laugh hysterically]  Grandma was stylin’ back in the 70’s, I think it even had the nice rims on it.  I took it and shit that thing up something fierce!  That thing was awful by the time I got rid of it.  I destroyed it!  And that was sad!  But life goes on!! [Snickers mischievously]

Karma:  What was your favorite childhood memory?

Cliff: We used to have a house in Pennsylvania and we used to go there on the weekends and that was cool.  It was in the woods and I’m a bug woods guy and I think I got that from being out in the woods and stuff when I was a kid and stuff like that.  Going out to the cabin and what not so I think that was probably it.

Karma: So how many candles, well 31, did you blow out on your birthday and which day? 

Cliff: July 3rd, 1973.  So I’m a Cancer! 7/3/73!!

Karma: If not music, then what?

Cliff: Something in the music industry.  I worked for Universal Records until I left about a week ago to come here; I was a Product Manager for them for 2 years.  I worked in the music industry before prior to signing with Roadrunner.  I just enjoy the business of music and I enjoy business.  Ultimately I like performing the most but I definitely aspire to be a label head or a manager or just working in the industry as a product manager again.  I just enjoy working with bands and working with good music.  And putting the pieces together and watching bands succeed.  I don’t think it necessarily a hard formula.  I just think a lot of red tape and egos have gotten in the way in the last 5 or 10 years.  This record is actually coming out through my own record label, Psychorrama Records.

Karma: Well Congrats!

Cliff: [Smiles] Thank you, thank you!  It’s just another stepping stone in the evolution of my career.

Karma: What’s the first thing you think of when you wake up in the morning?

Cliff: Where am I going to get my coffee from today?  [We both chuckle]  That’s probably the first thing I thing I think of is that I wake up and I ponder if there’s a Dunkin Donuts near me and if there’s not then what my Plan B is.  Then I usually execute that plan!  And that’s the first thing I think about.

Karma: Favorite household chore?

Cliff: Cleaning dishes!  I like cleaning dishes!!

Karma: Really?

Cliff: Yeah, I don’t mind cleaning dishes.  I hate dusting, but I don’t mind cleaning dishes.  [Laughing]  I don’t know why.

Karma: Wow!

Cliff: Yeah!  [Snickers] It doesn’t bother me!

Karma: X-Box or Playstation?

Cliff: Oh, I don’t play video games but I have a Playstation 2 for the DVD player.  My drummer’s all about the X-Box.  So I’ll say band default to X-Box.  But for me, I have no real personal preference.

Karma: Favorite drink?

Cliff: Dunkin Donuts Large Vanilla sweet with cream, please!  [We both laugh]

Karma: I’m sensing a theme!

Cliff: It’s all real simple; I wear it all right there on the sleeve ya know!

Karma: If stranded on a desert island, who would you take with you?

Cliff: Would it make me sexist and rude to say the hottest girl I could find?

Karma: Nope!

Cliff: Okay, then the hottest girl I could find!  [We both laugh hysterically]  I just wanted to make sure.

Karma: And you have a choice of 5 CD's to take with you.

Cliff: [Mumbles] Shit, this is hard…  I’m gonna say Pantera Far Beyond Driven; Alice Cooper Welcome to My Nightmare; I’m gonna say Led Zeppelin Early Days, Latter Days; I’m gonna say Incubus Make Yourself?  Is that the name of it?

Karma: Yes, it is

Cliff: And I’m gonna say the Richard Pryor box set!  Now that’s funny!!  We bought it for the van…that dude’s a genius!!

Karma: Well thank you very much Cliff!  I appreciate it!

Cliff: Thank you!  No problem!  It was awesome.


I'd like to thank the band's Tour Manager, Tim, for setting the interview up!!  Good fortune guys with everything!!

Dead And Dreaming